[Salty0ne]

Hi everyone, I’m looking for help on a power issue, thanks for any insight.
I just purchased a 1997 4000 express (Mid Cabin Express) and brought it from NC to FL. Along the way shore power stopped working after a night at a dock with no circuit breaker on the power pedestal. I’m also getting an ‘over power’ indicator on the inverter panel. The boat is equipped with a Trace engineering inverter which looks to be original factory install. Any idea if there’s a breaker between the power in to the boat and the backside of the panel board located inside the cabin?

I have verified power at the pedestal at the new home port. I’ve turned everything I can find off and allowed for power to discharge. I’ve reset the inverter and it no longer displays the ‘over power’ warning. But I still have no 240v power available on the circuits.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[hiccup]

Yes, there will be a breaker very close to the shore power inlet.

[Roweje]

Hi everyone, I’m looking for help on a power issue, thanks for any insight.
I just purchased a 1997 4000 express (Mid Cabin Express) and brought it from NC to FL. Along the way shore power stopped working after a night at a dock with no circuit breaker on the power pedestal. I’m also getting an ‘over power’ indicator on the inverter panel. The boat is equipped with a Trace engineering inverter which looks to be original factory install. Any idea if there’s a breaker between the power in to the boat and the backside of the panel board located inside the cabin?

I have verified power at the pedestal at the new home port. I’ve turned everything I can find off and allowed for power to discharge. I’ve reset the inverter and it no longer displays the ‘over power’ warning. But I still have no 240v power available on the circuits.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 
I have a 2007 3600 Express, and on mine, I have two breakers under the gunwhale where the power goes in, as well as on the power panel. I was surprised to see two sets of breakers on the shore power. I don’t know if Tiara always did this or just on later models.

[Jack Aperio]

My 1995 4000 Express has 3 cartridge fuse holders (1 for the 30A and 2 for the 50A) adjacent to the 30A and 50A shore power inlets under the starboard step. I’ve also seen breakers in this location on newer models. Here’s a picture of what mine look like.

[Salty0ne]

Thanks for the help,
I have both 30 amp and 50 amp service, the breakers in the garage/trunk are not tripped and the breakers/power selection at the main panel have 3 options, 120v shore, 240v shore, generator. 

With the breakers in the garage on and all three of the main AC panel breakers off, the 120V shore green available light comes on at the AC Distro panel and the shore power breaker holds. I also get a reading of 120V on the AC volt meter also at the AC Distro panel. As soon as I flip on the 120v Shore breaker at the AC Distro panel, the pedestal breaker trips. I have tried this with all circuits in the off position and still no luck. 
When I connect the 240v 50 amp shore cable and attempt to flip on the breaker at the pedestal it trips immediately. I have tried with the breakers in the garage off as well as everything off at the main distribution panel. 

I have noticed the meter selector switch(rotary style) no longer stops but will click through all the way around 360. This switch is called a meter selector switch by Tiara and is a 3-pole/4-position switch. The options are 120v/240v/generator/inverter. It seems to work but I fear it might be faulty and giving me false hope.

Any suggestions on what to look for so I can get shore power stable is greatly appreciated!
   

[jclark003]

Does the pedestal have GFCI breakers? Do you know if they are tripping due to a ground fault or an excessive load? If it is a ground fault I would guess the neutral wires are somehow tied together which can trip ground fault breakers. This is not uncommon wiring in older tiaras. You can look though past posts to get more information.

If the breakers are tripping from over-load it may be time to bring in a professional due to safety. Maybe look to isolate the inverter or isolation transformer if so equipped. If you don’t have one, reach out to Tiara customer service with your hull number and have them send you a wiring diagram. That will help you understand what sits between the inlet breakers and the distribution panel and should show if the neutrals sit on a common bus bar.

[Salty0ne]

Does the pedestal have GFCI breakers? Do you know if they are tripping due to a ground fault or an excessive load? If it is a ground fault I would guess the neutral wires are somehow tied together which can trip ground fault breakers. This is not uncommon wiring in older tiaras. You can look though past posts to get more information.

If the breakers are tripping from over-load it may be time to bring in a professional due to safety. Maybe look to isolate the inverter or isolation transformer if so equipped. If you don’t have one, reach out to Tiara customer service with your hull number and have them send you a wiring diagram. That will help you understand what sits between the inlet breakers and the distribution panel and should show if the neutrals sit on a common bus bar.

The boat was docked and plugged in to the new upgraded power without tripping at the previous owners home berth. While coming home we also had a couple of overnights at marinas with the upgraded electric that is gfi protected. Power worked successfully until the meter switch started failing. Long story to say I’m not convinced it’s a ground fault issue because it was working and nothing was changed on the boat, I’ve only noticed the meter select switch is now able to go 360 instead of stopping when it reaches the inverter and going back to 120v shore 

And yes the pedestal is GFI protected.

I’ve not been able to source a replacement switch and am now researching for replacement options.
Looking for a 4 position 3 pole switch.

[hiccup]

You can temporarily disconnect the wires from the switch. Be careful, there can be high voltage on the leads from the inverter/gen/shorepower. Remove the wires and temporarily (but safely) insulate the ends of the wires, see if you still trip (I would bet 10:1 you do). My selector switch also rotates past the markings, it is fine, I doubt it ever had a stop.

With that curiosity satisfied, the next step is to confirm it is a GF problem as opposed to an overcurrent problem (does it trip the generator breakers??). Once you have confirmed it's a GF problem (I'd be a taker again at 10:1), you need to systematically go through to find the problem. To me it sounds like you have multiple problems, but they may have a common root cause, tough to say. When you say the 50A pedestal trips 'right away', are you saying it trips when plugged in but all breakers on the boat (including the trunk) turned off? This would indicate a failure between the first breaker (in the trunk) and the end of the cord. The tripping you mention on 30A power sounds more typical of a boat-side GF problem, number one cause of these problems is inverter wiring (battery chargers, hot water heaters next on the list). The anecdote about previously being OK with 'upgraded' pedestals may be a red herring as the breakers may have different thresholds for fault tripping, some as low as 5mA, which is hard for an old boat to meet, etc.

Tiara should be able to provide you with the wiring diagrams (including the inverter option) for the boat, and they can go a long way towards helping, but keep in mind it is possible if not likely someone has changed things over the years.

[Salty0ne]

Hey Hiccup, thanks for the info about the switch. Good to know it might not need replacing.

- I did disconnect the switch wires (all 15) label and isolate them and the pedestal breaker did still trip.
- unfortunately the Genset is inop and has no chance at being serviced back to life. I have disconnected the wiring harness and all 4 wires are insulated to prevent unwanted stray currents or faults.
- The trunk breakers are only for hot leads as the ground goes directly to the galvanic isolators and the neutral goes direct to the 240 or 120 breakers actually located in the main distribution panel. 

I'm not sure if there is a potential Neutral to Ground fault. I also do not know if that would cause any issues or if the issues would manifest differently across the 2 shore power sources. In writing this I am curious if the 240 breaker at the main distro panel might be faulty causing that failure immediately where the 120 failure only occurs after that breaker is thrown...?...

- I do have a wiring diagram from Tiara, and have used it every step of the way to learn the systems and verify my findings vs factory install
- I have checked continuity on each of the 7 legs for shore power ( 4 on 240v and 3 on 120v ) and there is no cross continuity or any indication of a fault in the wires, I have removed the 50amp plug cleaned all the ends verified the wires are not corroded and reassembled with some dielectric grease included for good measure. The 30 amp circuit I have a new 25' cable and the receptacle at the stern of the boat has been cleaned and verified good connections as well.
- I tested the galvanic isolators to ensure they are not the problem in line and they both tested as operational.

I will disconnect the battery chargers and the water heater to see if there is any change, the inverter is the original factory installed Trace Engineering inverter and the wiring all matches with the wiring schematics I received from Tiara.

I will continue to run through the system and see if there is any GF that can be identified.

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions, I have a few things to continue testing

[hiccup]

First step, see if the 50A still trips when you turn off the breaker in the trunk and plug in. This will narrow it down. There are straightforward ways to determine GF vs. overcurrent but they also can be dangerous if not qualified, so I will leave out those details.

My guess is you have at least 2 problems, both related to GF, not over-current. The guess is based on the limited information you're posting but more so on my experience troubleshooting these problems over the past several years as the ELCI breakers made their way into marinas. Measuring continuity between N & G (or L & G!) with a DMM would be obvious, but it doesn't have to be the case in order to have a GF problem. Sometimes the leakage only occurs at higher voltage. There are also several ways an inverter can cause GF trips without showing continuity on a DMM depending on how its wired.