Hi Folks,
My name is Tim and I'm looking at buying a 2008 Sovran 3500. She seems like a gem of a boat and configured well for my purposes - cruising south Florida, Biscayne Bay and the Keys.
The boat I'm considering has not been well maintained. The survey identified lots of basic maintenance needs but apparently nothing serious. It's disturbing to me to see such a beautiful boat ignored by its owner. These things need love and TLC and they'll last 20 years and thousands and thousands of hours. But when you neglect them, they usually fight back.
My question for the forum is how concerned should I be with a set of Volvo IPS systems not treated with a lot of care. Will they "fight back" and get even with the new owner or are they likely to respond well to some TLC and attention?
Overall, these Diesel engines and drives will require a little more attention than gas engines and non-IPS drives but I've heard Penta parts are very expensive and the complexity of the systems add extra labor to normal repairs.
Advice? Big step for me but I like the vessel. Just a little concerned about second hand boats from owners who don't take care of them. One never knows what to expect in the months and years to come.
The 3500 Sovran is a great boat. I have sold a few of them and have spent many hours behind wheel. IPS is a great system when maintained properly. It is a complex system and with complexity comes more expense to maintain it. I feel the benefits of increased maneuverability(high and low speed) and lower fuel burn are worth the added complexity.
1) When you had the survey performed, did you hire a separate engine/drive surveyor that is familiar with IPS? Most hull surveyors will go over the general components of the diesel engines and drives, but they normally do not include a detailed report. I would personally recommend hiring an engine surveyor well versed in VOLVO diesels and the IPS system.
2) Are you planning on keeping the vessel in the water or on a lift? An IPS boat kept in the water is going to require more maintenance and you are also going to have to keep a closer eye on things such as electrolysis, sacrificial anodes, marine growth and engine room corrosion of components.
I'm not a diesel mechanic or an IPS specialist, but I have sold dozens of IPS vessels and dealt with many issues with clients that have arisen over the years. In other words, I know just enough to be dangerous.
The first thing you should know is that the IPS system is completely computer controlled. The steering and shifting are controlled electronically. This means that a laptop is just as important when servicing and maintaining the IPS system as a set of wrenches.
The IPS system acts as transmission, muffler, raw water intakes, drive system and steering all-in-one. So yes, IPS will be more expensive to maintain than a traditional transmission/inboard set up.
The IPS is electrically steered via the computer. A high voltage (400 volts?) electric motor steers the drives. High voltage, water and metal can be a recipe for disaster if done incorrectly and not maintained properly. Volvo did an excellent job when designing the system, but care must be taken to maintain it properly. There are special sacrificial anodes mounted on the transom below the waterline just for the IPS drive units. They are not made of zinc like traditional anodes, but rather they are made of aluminum and magnesium. Rather than wear away and get smaller, they get lighter in weight while maintaining their shape and size. They must be replaced from time to time with the correct approved anodes. Their life span depends on the electrical currents in the water where you keep the vessel. They may have to be replaced yearly, biannually or quarterly. Failure to monitor and replace these anodes when necessary can lead to damage of the drive and propellers and if neglected long enough could lead to complete failure and necessitate replacement of the drives. Note: Only hire licensed professionals when installing electronics or electrical components. A bad wiring job in the engine room can cause severe electrolysis of the engines and drive units (Yes I have seen this in person - repair was over $25,000.00).
The drives contain gears, bearings and seals. Special oil is used internally to keep everything internally working properly. This oil should be checked regularly for proper level and should be changed at the recommended intervals by a certified technician.
The drives are not connected by tie bars, instead they are completely independent of each other. This allows for the amazing handling around the dock via the joystick and also allows for progressive steering at high speeds for increased performance. This also means that the alignment needs to be checked from time to time (every drive service). If you strike a submerged object or run aground, you will need to have the vessel hauled and checked for damage and alignment.
IPS uses smaller diameter props than traditional inboards. In order to compensate for the lack of diameter, the props spin at a much higher RPM than their inboard counterparts. Lower diameter and higher RPMs means that the props are much more sensitive to marine growth and also to vessel load. Just a tiny bit of growth can lead to substantial losses of speed. Overloading the vessel and/or towing tenders can also lead to substantial losses of performance and fuel economy. The good news is products like Prop/Speed (or equivalent) can be used to coat the props and keep the growth at bay. Traditional bottom paint will not stick to low RPM inboard props much less high RPM IPS props. Use the proper coatings.
Overloading and or towing: IPS drives work great when properly loaded. If you do tend to carry more weight aboard than typical or if you tow a tender, you may need to do two things. First you may need to change the props to handle the increased load and you may need to add IPS drive coolers to keep the drive oil temperatures in the proper range. Overloading can cause drive damage and engine damage.
The Volvo diesels are great engines. They run great, they are economical and they a great history of dependability. Keep them maintained and you should have many years of trouble free boating. FYI - Diesels need good oil, clean cooling system and clean fuel system. Watch your service intervals closely and you will be golden!
As for the boat, Tiara builds a really great high quality boat. Do all the maintenance and keep the boat clean and dry and you should be good to go. If you have specific questions, feel free to contact me.
You should contact your local Volvo/IPS dealer. I would go over any survey issues that came up regarding the engines or drives. Then I would see if you can pay to receive a Volvo/IPS orientation. It will be money well spent. They should also be able to pull up the engine records (you will likely have to supply them with engine serial numbers) and go over any warranty issues or service records.
If you keep the vessel in the water, you should keep the Air Conditioners set to dehumidify mode. This will keep the inside of the boat dry and free of mold and mildew. If you keep the boat on a lift, you should buy a plug in dehumidifier (try West Marine) and place it on the galley counter with the drain line in the sink (this sink drain goes directly overboard and does not rely on a pump to remove the water from the hull). Keep all of the interior doors open so every area will remain dry. If you keep the vessel inside a boat barn where electricity is not available, you will have to resort to chemical desiccants (available at West Marine or other boating supply stores). Chemical desiccants need to checked on every week or two. Once they are used up, remove them from the boat and replace with new. Do not overuse chemical desiccants. Too much inside the boat can create corrosion of metal surfaces within the cabin. Follow the directions on the desiccants.
Coring - Your entire vessel is cored including the hull bottom. If you drill or cut holes to add equipment, please make sure to properly prep the areas and use sealers to ensure no water can find its way into the holes. When cutting larger holes into coring, the coring should be dug out around the cut and replaced with a fiberglass filler of the appropriate type and then proper sealers should be used to bed the component being installed. Water intrusion into the coring can be costly to repair if allowed to spread over long periods of time.
If you keep the vessel in the sun, topsides should be waxed or polished every quarter. Hull sides can be done bi-annually (white). If you have a colored hull, it depends on if it is gel-coat or paint as to what maintenance should be done. Gel-coat is porous and requires cleaning and protective coatings in order to keep the color from fading. Even with good maintenance, colored gel-coat will eventually fade and require wet sanding and a complete multi-step restoration process. Once the gel-coat has been restored a few times, you will eventually have to have the hull painted (the gel-coat is only so thick and once you polish and sand through it, you will run out of colored gel-coat). Paint is much less porous and easier to keep looking shiny and should last longer than gel-coat. It is easier to wax, but is more difficult to repair and color match. White gel-coat does not have the fade issues and should last the life the hull if well maintained.
Chris,
You are awesome! Invaluable info above. SO it sounds like I've generally done this right. I did have a separate hull and engine/drive survey - and I has the engine survey done by Jas Marine, the local Volvo IPS dealer. Jim was very knowledgeable and covered most of the items you outlined. When we pulled the boat, I saw the special anodes and noted the smaller than expected props (in need of a good tune). I have some bonding work to do as some of the wiring is loose. I was also a bit freaked seeing water sitting inside the drive clamps (whatever they're called) where the drives penetrate the hull. We didn't see much corrosion (Jimmy from Jas said we caught it at the right time) but the drives and engines haven't had a good service in a while and that is job 1 but the oil samples were clean.
I'm going to have a full service on the engines and as i understand it, the boat will need to be pulled again to service the drives. How does one check to see if the anodes are good for another year?
The boat will be in the water in Ft. Lauderdale. it is white gelcoat with the light blue bottom paint (done 3 months ago). How often should i have a diver clean the bottom?
You've probably seen it countless times. The current owner didn't take good care of his boat. A real shame. I'm look at $20k maintenance on day one (all hoses, bonding checked, super charger is loose....). Once I get it to a good baseline, any guidelines on annual regular maintenance costs?
One last Q. It doesn't have autopilot and its basically got a Ray E-120 set up. I see the SPX CAN system is engineered specifically for Volvo IS ($2,200) ANy idea of install costs?
Chris,
You are awesome! Invaluable info above. SO it sounds like I've generally done this right. I did have a separate hull and engine/drive survey - and I has the engine survey done by Jas Marine, the local Volvo IPS dealer. Jim was very knowledgeable and covered most of the items you outlined. When we pulled the boat, I saw the special anodes and noted the smaller than expected props (in need of a good tune). I have some bonding work to do as some of the wiring is loose. I was also a bit freaked seeing water sitting inside the drive clamps (whatever they're called) where the drives penetrate the hull. We didn't see much corrosion (Jimmy from Jas said we caught it at the right time) but the drives and engines haven't had a good service in a while and that is job 1 but the oil samples were clean.
I'm going to have a full service on the engines and as i understand it, the boat will need to be pulled again to service the drives. How does one check to see if the anodes are good for another year?
The boat will be in the water in Ft. Lauderdale. it is white gelcoat with the light blue bottom paint (done 3 months ago). How often should i have a diver clean the bottom?
You've probably seen it countless times. The current owner didn't take good care of his boat. A real shame. I'm look at $20k maintenance on day one (all hoses, bonding checked, super charger is loose....). Once I get it to a good baseline, any guidelines on annual regular maintenance costs?
One last Q. It doesn't have autopilot and its basically got a Ray E-120 set up. I see the SPX CAN system is engineered specifically for Volvo IS ($2,200) ANy idea of install costs?
(I'm going to have a full service on the engines and as i understand it, the boat will need to be pulled again to service the drives. How does one check to see if the anodes are good for another year?) - The IPS anodes must be pulled and weighed to determine if they need to be replaced. The hull anodes wear down and get smaller. When they get down to 1/2 size its time to replace them. If you have to pull the boat for drive service, I would just put all new on and know that you starting fresh and then you have a baseline date.
(The boat will be in the water in Ft. Lauderdale. it is white gelcoat with the light blue bottom paint (done 3 months ago). How often should i have a diver clean the bottom?) - Since the bottom was painted only 3 months ago, you should be good for the next 10 months to a year. How was the coating on the props? Winter months - once per month, Summer - every two weeks - four weeks depending on use.
(You've probably seen it countless times. The current owner didn't take good care of his boat. A real shame. I'm look at $20k maintenance on day one (all hoses, bonding checked, super charger is loose....). Once I get it to a good baseline, any guidelines on annual regular maintenance costs?) - My guess is your yearly maintenance is going to run between $20,000.00 and $30,000.00. Bottom Paint (and monthly cleanings); Yearly engine, generator, drive service; Air Conditioning service (cooling line & filter cleaning); componant failure and replacement; Waste System maintainence; Bilge Pump and water management system; Cleaning & detailing; Anti corrosion service.
(One last Q. It doesn't have autopilot and its basically got a Ray E-120 set up. I see the SPX CAN system is engineered specifically for Volvo IS ($2,200) ANy idea of install costs?) - The IPS system requires an autopilot system specifically designed for IPS. Ray Marine and Simrad make really good Auto-Pilots for IPS. I'm sure there are others. Off the top of my head, $3,500.00 to $5,000.00 is what I remember an IPS Pilot costs installed and interfaced. I would definately install an auto-pilot.
I'm glad you have contact with your local Volvo dealer. They are going to be invaluable to you.
Again, many thanks Chris. You are gem! I suspect I'll have further questions about the Sovran. I signed the agreement this morning and will close next week. Then headed for service and updating (AP, etc). All the best,
Tim
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